These two questions point to the heart of the third point of Calvinism, Limited Atonement. Most Christians would say that Jesus died for all the sins of every person in the entire world. Jesus paid the price for each sin of every person and we apply that forgiveness to us personally when we put our faith in Jesus.
Limited Atonement, however, says that Jesus died to actually save those God elected. When Jesus was crucified on the Roman cross he did not simply make salvation a possibility, but rather he actually redeemed God’s elect (“many”, Mark 10:45), propitiated God’s wrath (Romans 3:25), made atonement for God’s people (Hebrews 2:17) and reconciled them to God (2 Corinthians 5:18). The New Testament does not speak of potential possibilities that Jesus’ death may achieve, but rather the definite salvation Jesus did achieve for those God had chosen. Jesus’ death saved and redeemed (past tense) God’s people.
Jesus himself said he would lay down his life for his sheep, not the goats.
Double jeopardy
The opposite of Limited Atonement in the theory of General Ransom (i.e. Jesus paid the price for every person’s sins). But this can logically also not be true. How could a just God punish an unbeliever for his or her sins if Jesus has already received their punishment? You cannot be prosecuted for the same crime (or parking ticket!) twice.
When God the Son died on that Roman cross in the first century AD, he accomplished the eternal salvation of those whom God the Father had unconditionally elected.
Hi Andre! I love what you wrote here and I do think I agree with you, but what concerns me when I read this is, how would a person who doesnt know Christ but is interested or at least curious about Christianity take this. Would he think that we are a "Elite club for the elect?" and he/she is not able to be accepted. also if a person is doubting his/her faith in Christ, could they think they arnt part of the elect, how do we answer these questions?(Im just wondering for my own theology, and also interested in a pastors response to these) Thanks!!
ReplyDeleteYour Canadian bro!
Hi Andre,
ReplyDeleteI must admit that the last few weeks of teaching have been hard teachings. Things were taught that, I must admit, I didn't really want to hear. Like limited atonement. I remember thinking to myself: "Why would anyone come up with something as distasteful as Calvinism and Armenianism? What's the point?"
I get it now though (I think). Calvinism and Armenianism tries to make sense of scripture as they pertain to references to (and inferences of) election and predestination. It's about taking God's Word about Himself and trying to understand what He is saying. And that's a noble thing.
Would it be fair to say that the Calvin/Armenian debate is an "insider debate" in the sense that it's something that Christians tend to debate among themselves but largely when they are already inside the fold of Christianity. (For me this was a non-issue until we started this course. Although I did often here about there being contention between these views, I just didn't know what they were about.)
At first glance, I seem to think this falls into the category of Doctrine as something like the Trinity in the sense that we are only told what we are told. There is not much explanation about it (probably for very good reason.)
I know that Jesus is God, The Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. I know that Jesus is not the Father, The Father is not the Holy Spirit and Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. We know this from scripture. I can't explain how this works though.
Hi Chris
ReplyDeleteGood to hear from you bro!
Are we in danger of being an elitist club? That is the danger! We must remember point one of Calvinism: Total depravity. We do not know whom God has chosen before the creation of the world, but we do know that he has. When the elect hear the gospel they will obey God’s call and respond in repentance and faith. Jesus said in John 10, “I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.”
We don’t know whom God has elected, but we do know that Jesus died to save sinners and we are all sinners. So we can legitimately preach the gospel and say, “Jesus died for sinners. You are a sinner. You need to repent and trust Jesus.”
God’s sovereign election and Jesus definite atonement also give us great confidence in preaching and evangelism: If God the Father did not graciously elect some and God the Son did not die to actually save them, our preaching would be in vain because (1) No-one seeks God and (2) No-one can save themselves.
Calvinism drove the apostle Paul to (if I may put it like that!). Acts 18:9-11 says, ‘one night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: "Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. For I am with you, and no-one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city/ many people in the city belong to me.” So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.’
If Christians doubt their salvation, Limited Atonement can be a great help! The question they must answer is, “Have I repented of sin and trusted in Jesus?” If they have, they are Christians and the eternal salvation is 100% secure because Jesus accomplished it for them in time and history.
Hope this helps?
Your SA bro
Andre
Dear Gerschwin
ReplyDeleteI agree that Limited Atonement is an insider debate. Take for example the thief on the cross who turned to Jesus, he was neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian - he simply saw his need and turned to Jesus.
Yet, as Christians were are called to grow in our knowledge of God's word and develop our own doctrinal views (which should be constantly reformed by the bible).
Of course we remember that God is mysterious and majestic and we can never fully know God!
Andre
Brothers,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comments. God has said these things about what Christ accopmplished on the cross. How do you incorporate these passages into an accurate doctrine of salvation, in which we do not leave out these very important things God has said about salvation?
Isaiah 53:6
All we
like sheep
have gone astray;
we
have turned—every one—to his own way;
and
the LORD
has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
1 Tim. 2:5-6
For
there is one God,
and
there is one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus,
who
gave himself as a ransom for all,
which is the testimony given at the proper time.
1 Timothy 4:10
For
to this end
we
toil and strive,
because
we
have our hope set on the living God,
who
is the Savior of all people,
especially of those who believe.
1 John 1:29
The next day
he
saw Jesus coming toward him, and said,
"Behold,
the Lamb of God,
who takes away the sin of the world!
John 3:16
"For
God
so loved the world,
that
he
gave his only Son,
that
whoever believes in him
should not perish
but have eternal life.
1 John 2:2
He
is
the propitiation
for our sins,
and not for ours only
but also
for the sins of the whole world.
2 Peter 2:1
But
false prophets
also arose among the people,
just as there will be false teachers among you,
who
will secretly bring in destructive heresies,
even denying the Master who bought them,
bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
Hi Anonymous
ReplyDeleteThanks for your questions. The texts you refer to may seem to contradict the doctrine of limited atonement. I would suggest to you that these passages – rightly understood – do not contradict the doctrine, but compliment it.
Let me explain:
In Isaiah 53:6 I would argue that the “iniquity of us all” should be understood as, “the iniquity of all God’s people (of which Isaiah was one)”. The “all” in v6 is the “many” of v11-12. Jesus has paid the price and redeemed all God’s elect, of which there is many.
When 1 Timothy 2:6 says that Jesus “gave himself as a ransom for all”, I presume that the Apostle Paul means “all kinds of people”. In v1 Paul urged the Christians to pray for “all people”, which includes “kings” and “those in high places”. I take it that Paul did not mean Christians should pray for absolutely everyone, but rather for people of all classes and kinds – even kings. Jesus is the only mediator and only ransom for people of any class, any country, any generation and any culture, anywhere. This verse speaks against universalism and highlights the uniqueness of Christ.
I would argue that 1 Timothy 4:10 should be understood as “we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Saviour of all people, in other words (to be precise) those who believe.” If we look at the use of the word “especially” throughout 1 & 2 Timothy, then this interpretation makes sense. Cf. 1 Timothy 5:8, 17; 2 Timothy 4:13. “Especially” should be read to mean “that is”. Understood this way Paul affirms limited atonement.
John 3:16 remains true. God did love people (the world) so much that he gave Jesus to be the atoning sacrifice for sin. Whoever trusts in Jesus will be saved. The Bible teaches both divine sovereignty and human responsibility.
I love 1 John 2:2. John is making the points that Jesus’ atoning sacrifice is not only sufficient and effective for “our sins” (the sins of the then living, first century believers), but also sufficient and effective for the sins of the “whole world” (that is, God’s people of every nation, every generation and every culture).
2 Peter 2:1 is a difficult one! I think that the false teachers Peter refers to where claiming to be Christians or, if you like, “bought”. Yet they ended up living like non-Christians and teaching unbiblical things. By their words and actions they denied Jesus, who they claimed “bought” them. 1 John 2:19 would have been true for them too, “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.”
Please let me know your thoughts!
Dear Brother Andre,
ReplyDeleteThank you much for responding to my email - and for your invitation to know my thoughts! The Lord has said, "Come now, let us reason together" (Isaiah 1:18) and we should do just that! I believe it honors Him when we use our minds to rightly divide His Truth. I am very busy with work right now, but will try to
respond as I get some time in the next few weeks. Thank you for your ministry as a pastor and for preaching the Word. Blessing in Jesus,
Brent
Cool Brent, look forward to hearing from you!
ReplyDelete